While opening bugs for packages that depend on libsdl1.2, I noticed
that cegui-mk2 seems to be a library that is not depended on by anything
in Debian. Is it still useful to have in the distribution?

Looking at https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=cegui-mk2, there
were a relatively large number of installations in the 2008-2010 period,
and a dramatic drop after 2010. I assume this is a result of some game
that used to use cegui-mk2 either switching away from it or being removed
from Debian.

If cegui-mk2 is no longer useful, we could remove it from the archive to
avoid it taking up QA time.

If it's removed, as far as I can see, we could also remove irrlicht (which
was previously a dependency for minetest, but minetest has switched to
a vendored fork of irrlicht).

    smcv

Control: tag -1 + moreinfo

That's a very fair question. I would submit that the value of continuing
to maintain CEGUI is as a programming and development tool for our
users; especially if I ever have a spare moment to package CEED [1].
That is a well-featured editor for creating GUIs (using CEGUI) in
developmental programs.

However, the latest stable release *IS* very old at this point and is
becoming difficult to maintain. I messaged the developers to ask about
their plans for a newer release. Once they respond, I will update this bug.

I believe that's when Ember (which I also previously maintained) went
into heavy development and we ultimately decided to remove it from
Debian. I'm not aware of any other programs that use (or have used)
CEGUI. Oh, wait. That was more recent. In the 2010 timeframe I believe
there was a temporary loss of momentum upstream. I may be misremembering
that. In any case, too much development or not enough, Ember
installations likely impacted CEGUI installations in Debian.

I agree in principle. However, we might not have the same definition of
"useful." :) I will say that if upstream is not open to releasing an
updated version then my willingness to devote extensive time to keeping
this package current will likely diminish. As will my perception of its
usefulness in Debian.

I don't know much about that package but if there isn't a strong
argument to keep it as a resource for software developers who use
Debian, then I agree it would no longer be useful.

Also, thanks for bringing this up! It's a tough conversation to have but
it *IS* a conversation that we should be having.

inclination is to continue to provide this package.

I'll keep this bug open for now in case anyone else would like to weigh
in with opinions.

Hi,

just to add a small bit of information:
Debian (while in principle, it could), is "The Secret Chronicles of Dr.
M." (https://secretchronicles.org/en/).

On that note: the current version in Debian is called
"0.8.7+git20220615-3". I did assume this is the git version of the
master branch on date 20220615 of the main repo
https://github.com/cegui/cegui/. However, that cannot be, as changes
made in that repo are not present in the Debian package. One example is
Editbox.cpp: compare that file in

https://github.com/cegui/cegui/tree/master/cegui/src/widgets (2 years
old)

to the one here:

https://salsa.debian.org/games-team/cegui-mk2/-/tree/master/cegui/src/widgets?ref_type=heads
(8 years old)

That file is special only insofar as TSC currently faces the problem
that the version of cegui in Debian is too old to be used with a
"current" build against cegui, see
https://github.com/Secretchronicles/TSC/issues/708.

Frank

Ok, continuing the hard conversation here.
It's now been a year and a half. Upstream has still not released a new
version and does not seem very active from looking at their GitHub. I've
been dealing with many changes in both my personal and professional life
so my time has sadly been much more constrained.

My perspective now is that it is probably not worth the effort of
maintaining this package. I certainly don't have the time to put in the
effort required to effectively update the entire codebase to bring it
up-to-date. Especially if this isn't really being used. Therefore, to
the point that smcv made, we should also consider removing irrlicht.

Thoughts? Anyone opposed or see a value in keeping this? (And interested
in doing the work involved)

If I don't hear anything in the next few weeks, I'll start the process
of removing this package from sid. (Build errors have already taken care
of removing it from testing)

For irrlicht specifically (since I'm one of its maintainers), I'd like
to keep it around even if it won't have any reverse (build-)deps, on
the off-chance that we might be able to use it again for supertuxkart
one day. It's a low maintenance package so I don't see the need to
remove it right now.

Regards,
Vincent

Hi,

Since Muammar has retired, would you please
consider adopting adopting libsilly alongside cegui-mk2;
as this is a building block of CEGUI and has no other use
(for now) ?

https://packages.debian.org/sid/libsilly

Greetings,

Alexandre

Vincent Cheng <vcheng@debian.org>

Hi Alexandre,

I'm guessing this was directed at Vincent? For the record, I was
surprised to see cegui back in testing. I was purposely not updating it
(and had just not gotten around to requesting removal from sid) because
it didn't seem like there was any interest in keeping it. My personal
opinion, for what it's worth, is that the upstream development seems
stalled and I don't think the package is appropriate to keep in Debian
at this time.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great library and I really hope that upstream
recovers their momentum at some point and we can include it again.
However, until that happens, it would be a massive effort to keep this
package updated to the standards that we need. I'm not sure that any of
us has the time for that.

Best regards,
-Olek

I don't really have an opinion on whether we keep cegui in the archive
or not, but irrlicht is a build-dep for cegui and not the other way
around, so it doesn't really impact irrlicht one way or the other. If
cegui gets removed, then irrlicht just becomes a leaf package, which I
think is fine.

Regards,
Vincent

Fellow Games Team Members,

Ok, this is my official notification that I intend to request removal of
cegui-mk2 from testing and unstable. It sounds like nobody has strong
feelings about keeping it and I personally do not have the time to make
the needed changes that upstream similarly hasn't been able to make.

So, if anyone *does* want to keep this package in Trixie, please speak
up now. If I don't hear anything by this weekend (May 24th) I will
assume that no such person exists. :)

However, if someone *does* want to keep this package, I would ask that
you please add your name to uploaders (and remove mine). Commit that to
Salsa and wait until Trixie release to upload. I don't mind my name
being on the package in Trixie if someone else commits to caring for it
in the future.

Best regards,
-Olek

Le Mon, 19 May 2025 19:44:05 -0400,
Olek Wojnar <olek@debian.org> a écrit :

Looking through my collection of games, I only found one that could benefit
from a Debian-packaged cegui-mk2: Torchlight 2.
(non-free, not redistributable, so not packaged)

This game already comes with shipped builds of the parts of the library it
relies upon, and I have not tried running it with the Debian-provided one
instead, so I won’t really miss it if it needs to go.

Dear submitter,

as the package cegui-mk2 has just been removed from the Debian archive
unstable we hereby close the associated bug reports.  We are sorry
that we couldn't deal with your issue properly.

For details on the removal, please see https://bugs.debian.org/1111377

The version of this package that was in Debian prior to this removal
can still be found using https://snapshot.debian.org/.

Please note that the changes have been done on the master archive and
will not propagate to any mirrors until the next dinstall run at the
earliest.

This message was generated automatically; if you believe that there is
a problem with it please contact the archive administrators by mailing
ftpmaster@ftp-master.debian.org.

Debian distribution maintenance software
pp.
Thorsten Alteholz (the ftpmaster behind the curtain)