#391860 byzanz: Byzanz and Istanbul should use common terms in their description

Package:
byzanz
Source:
byzanz
Description:
small screencast creator
Submitter:
Erich Schubert
Date:
2010-02-20 11:48:03 UTC
Severity:
wishlist
#391860#3
Date:
2006-10-09 00:41:18 UTC
From:
To:
After someone asked on IRC, I tried to look up the package names with
apt-cache search. I managed to find istanbul, but didn't find byzanz;
(I searched for "session record", because I found that appropriate)
Even after picking some words from the istanbul description.

Maybe you could make the descriptions more similar, e.g. one uses
"screencast creator" and "record ... desktop", the other says "Desktop
session recorder".

Maybe Byzanz could use the short description
"Session recorder producing animated GIF images"
and Istanbul
"Session recorder producing Ogg Theora video"

And both could then use the term "desktop screencast" or so in their
description; maybe mention the other as an alternative?

#391860#8
Date:
2006-10-09 13:51:35 UTC
From:
To:
I'm quite happy with the current description. Even wikipedia knows the
term "screencast". Together with other important keywords like "desktop"
or "record" I think the package provides enough information to find it.

On the other side "to record a session" sounds not very familiar and at
least I have never heard the term "session recorder" before.

I'll close this bug for now, but I'm of course open to suggestions
regarding the description. For now think screencast is the main keyword
here, so there is no need to touch anything.


Cheers,

Bastian

#391860#13
Date:
2006-10-09 14:23:11 UTC
From:
To:
clone 391860 -1
reassign -1 istanbul
reopen -1
reopen 391860
thanks

Cloning to istanbul

Reopening #391860, because it is NOT fixed. If you don't intend to fix
it, maybe tag it "wontfix" (if you're happy that I didn't find your
package...)
"screencast" is a technical term _few_ people will be used to IMHO.

Note that the "official" description of Byzanz as far as I can tell is
more like
"Byzanz is a simple tool to record a running X desktop to an animated
GIF file."
no "screencasting" involved.

Or from the original announcement:
Byzanz is a desktop recorder. Just like Istanbul. But it doesn't record
to Ogg Theora, but to GIF.


Anyway, the bug said that istanbul and byzanz should use similar
descriptions to make it easier to find the other. so the bug is NOT
fixed.
I don't really oppose using "screencast" at all, just that it's a
technical term that should maybe not be used in the first line of the
description.
"Desktop recording" or "Session recording" should be understandable by
anyone with basic english skills.

Also note that "screencast" to me would imply it's live.
I'd call VNC (vino etc.) a screencasting tool; what byzanz does is make
("static") recordings.

best regards,
Erich Schubert

#391860#20
Date:
2006-10-09 13:51:35 UTC
From:
To:
I'm quite happy with the current description. Even wikipedia knows the
term "screencast". Together with other important keywords like "desktop"
or "record" I think the package provides enough information to find it.

On the other side "to record a session" sounds not very familiar and at
least I have never heard the term "session recorder" before.

I'll close this bug for now, but I'm of course open to suggestions
regarding the description. For now think screencast is the main keyword
here, so there is no need to touch anything.


Cheers,

Bastian

#391860#25
Date:
2006-10-09 19:18:08 UTC
From:
To:
tags 391860 wontfix
--

Erich Schubert wrote:
the long description of the package are appropriate. In fact, If you
have a look at byzanz' homepage, the description is almost identical to
upstreams:

http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1261

Cite:
---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---8<---
Record your desktop session to a GIF file

Byzanz is a GNOME Panel applet to record your current desktop to an
animated GIF file. This is especially useful for publishing on the web,
since every browser understands the GIF format. Use this for your
secreencasts!
--->8--->8--->8--->8--->8--->8--->8--->8--->8---

Please note the last word...

Like I already explained to you on IRC I think there is no solution for
this problem since it's almost impossible to form a description which
makes everyone happy or could guarantee that everyone will find this
package with only some vague keywords in mind. The current description
makes sure that most users should have no problems to find this package,
since it already contains the mayor keywords "desktop, record and
screencast". But as always, it's not possible to satisfy every user.

This problem BTW applies to every Debian package in general and I think
a better solution to fix such issues is via an alternative mechanism
like debtags.

#391860#32
Date:
2006-10-09 21:21:13 UTC
From:
To:
reopen 391860
thanks
(reopening, because it was closed after my inital reopen command since
somehow your -done mail was processed later than my control mail)

Hi,
"Session recorder producing animated GIF images"
is essentially upstreams one-line description.
Why does Debian need an entirely different one-line description?
Description: Small screencast creator

Yes, upstream uses screencast. But only as the very last word in the
description, not in the first line. You're welcome to use it in the body
of the description of the package.

Note that "screencast creator" also sounds like it would allow editing.
Editing for screencasts can be very useful, both for cutting out overly
long delays and for adding an audio track. The term "recorder" is
probably more appropriate.

Please note the fourth word. And the first line in its entirety.

Sure, but you could easily make _more_ people happy.

How about "session"? Upstream uses session in the first line.

Debtags can't address everything, and it in fact _relies_ on good
package descriptions for the AI. And for many applications, debtags will
never be able to replace full text search with good descriptions. It
will always be just an additional way of locating software packages.

Also you completely ignored the subject of the bug report:

Whether you like my suggestion on how to fix it or not: this is not
fixed, and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be fixed or is
"wontfix".

A description will never satisfy everbody, granted.
However, why should the descriptions of Istanbul and Byzanz be this
different, when they're basically doing the same thing? Shouldn't there
be an "as good as we'll be able to do" description that fits both except
for the file format?

Current descriptions:
---
Description: Small screencast creator
 Byzanz is a command-line/GNOME Panel applet allowing you to record your
 current desktop or parts of it to an animated  GIF file. This is
especially
 useful for publishing on the  web, since every  browser understands the
GIF
 format.
 .
 Byzanz is not limited to gnome, you can use it under non-GTK
environments
 like KDE too.
 .
 Homepage: http://people.freedesktop.org/~company/byzanz/
---
Description: Desktop session recorder
 Istanbul is a desktop session recorder for the Free Desktop.
 It records your session into an Ogg Theora video file.
 To start the recording, you click on its icon in the
 notification area. To stop you click its icon again.
 .
 It works on Gnome, KDE, XFCE and others.
---

Proposal:
Description: Desktop session recorder producing animated GIF images
 Byzanz is an application to record your desktop or parts of it (such as
an
 applications window) to an animated GIF file (a so called
"screencast").
 It has a command line interface as well as a GNOME panel applet, but it
can
 be used in non-GTK environments such as KDE as well.
 .
 While being less space efficient than other formats, the GIF file
format is
 particularly useful for publishing on the web, since every web browser
 understands the GIF format. This format offers the best compatibility.
 .
 Homepage: http://people.freedesktop.org/~company/byzanz/
---

But please talk to the istanbul maintainer.
He already is working on an improved description.

It makes a lot of sense that these two apps show up as
byzanz - ... record ... desktop ... animated GIF images
istanbul - ... record ... desktop ... Ogg Theora video
to make it obvious that they have essentially the same purpose.

best regards,
Erich Schubert

#391860#39
Date:
2006-10-13 15:48:25 UTC
From:
To:
I really like Erich's proposal, and i think that at least the
short description should be common, so I'd like to change to something
like:

istanbul -Desktop session recorder producing Ogg Theora video
byzanz - Desktop session recorder producing animated GIF images

Then personalize your long description and mention the term screencast
if you want. If you accept it, i will make the change in my next upload.
Otherwise let me know, so we can try to reach an agreement :)

Cheers, Luca

#391860#44
Date:
2010-02-20 11:33:46 UTC
From:
To:
Just to say that I have been using debian since ten years and I do not
know what is "screencast".  (But after reading the long description I
understand what it means.)  I suppose that many (maybe almost!) do not
know what it means.

cast for me means distribute to others through the network (radio,
video, tv).  I am not English speaker.

Cheers,