Hi.

I am intereted in fonts for some time (I am interested in Typography and
fonts are one obvious aspect of it).

Having been playing with XeTeX, I became interested to see which
hight-quality Free Software fonts that we had and, surprisingly, one of
the fonts that are usable with *TeX, Utopia, is Free, but seems to be
excluded from xfonts-scalable.

Here is some background on the issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia_%28typeface%29

One thing that is interesting to note is that Utopia is present in Type
1 format in the texlive packages, but it seems that texlive doesn't
register the fonts with X, as they are installed in a directory other
than /usr/share/fonts:

,----
| rbrito@chagas:~$ ls -log /usr/share/texmf-texlive/fonts/type1/adobe/utopia/put*
| -rw-r--r-- 1 36737 Nov 22  2006 /usr/share/texmf-texlive/fonts/type1/adobe/utopia/putb8a.pfb
| -rw-r--r-- 1 37993 Nov 22  2006 /usr/share/texmf-texlive/fonts/type1/adobe/utopia/putbi8a.pfb
| -rw-r--r-- 1 36507 Nov 22  2006 /usr/share/texmf-texlive/fonts/type1/adobe/utopia/putr8a.pfb
| -rw-r--r-- 1 37756 Nov 22  2006 /usr/share/texmf-texlive/fonts/type1/adobe/utopia/putri8a.pfb
| rbrito@chagas:~$
`----

I would, therefore, propose some coordination between debian-tex-maint,
debian-x and the fonts team.

Since I am interested in the fonts thing, I am willing to help, but I
don't have many rights, as I am only a Debian Maintainer.


Thanks, Rogério Brito.


P.S.: Just for the record, I generated, with FontForge, a very quick and
dirty truetype package with Utopia from the Type 1 fonts in texlive, so
that I can freely use it with fontconfig.

to make the texlive packages register fonts with font config.

If someone comes up with a decent proposal and knowledge how to
register fonts I am open to do that. But there are some trigger questions
how to call the fc-cache thingy.

Please read up in the mailing list archives.

I would be *very* grateful if someone can come up with a nice proposal.

Best wishes

Norbert
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Norbert Preining            preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan            TU Wien, Austria           Debian TeX Task Force
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Hi, Norbert and Co.

Is there any place where I could get a summary of the discussion? Of
course, in an ideal world, every font installed on a system would be
available for every program.
points in this? What about the process of installation of simpler font
packages with the system? Is that too deficient?

I would be happy to help once I learn about the main problems. I only
have packaged one font or another for my private use, but I would love
to make things widespread and document the knowledge.


Thanks,

there is some discussion and comments on how to implement and
problems.

- The location of fonts are not automatically searched by fontconfig
- the current code does not automatically call any dh_*font* in the rules

Maybe all of that is trivial, onkly one has to do the actual *work*.
the packages and check what is needed there.

I can implement most things easily in perl in the tpm2deb family, but
I need clear directions *what* to do.

And I don't want to move fonts around arbitrarily.

Best wishes

Norbert
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Norbert Preining            preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan            TU Wien, Austria           Debian TeX Task Force
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Hi,

Rogério Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br> (02/02/2010):

as far as the xfonts-scalable package is concerned, if you want fonts
to be added in there, the best way to go is reporting bugs upstream:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/

(Feel free to Cc me while submitting.)

As far as coordination between the various teams goes, I guess the
fonts team is the one with a fonts policy or something? I didn't check
yet, I've only ever uploaded new revisions of xfonts-* packages, only
doing some housekeeping in there (copying, build system updates, …).

KiBi.

Hi all,

Cyril Brulebois <kibi@debian.org>:

Rogério is right, Adobe Utopia is free software. It is already
included in <http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/individual/font/> in
the font-adobe-utopia-type1-1.0.4.tar.gz tarball, which includes the
following license in its COPYING file:

So, please build a new orig.tar.gz for xfonts-scalable including the
beautiful Adobe Utopia!

Best Regards,
Fabian

Am Freitag, den 05.10.2012, 17:22 +0200 schrieb Fabian Greffrath:
to modify the font and was thus still the same spurious license that
kept the font out of Debian. Initially, that is, because the font is now
on CTAN with an improved license:
http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/utopia/

Now, we could ask X.org upstream to upgrade their copy of the font to
the one found on CTAN (or at least upgrade the licensing terms) so we
could include it in the xfonts-scalable Debian package.

But then, the font is already in
the /usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/adobe/utopia/ directory in
the texlive-fonts-recommended package.

So, I became curious and checked if it was the same case for the
Bitstream Charter font:

$
md5sum /usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bitstrea/charter/*.pfb
6c8c18c1e1a138641a52c29f0b878445  /usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bitstrea/charter/bchb8a.pfb
7f969820a9c1085027a23beb06f6f457  /usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bitstrea/charter/bchbi8a.pfb
539b6fed90ef630e9049bc13079bc598  /usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bitstrea/charter/bchr8a.pfb
12369bddf1a14581d11fcdbf86619250  /usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/bitstrea/charter/bchri8a.pfb
$ md5sum /usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1/c06[34]*.pfb
6c8c18c1e1a138641a52c29f0b878445  /usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1/c0632bt_.pfb
7f969820a9c1085027a23beb06f6f457  /usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1/c0633bt_.pfb
539b6fed90ef630e9049bc13079bc598  /usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1/c0648bt_.pfb
12369bddf1a14581d11fcdbf86619250  /usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1/c0649bt_.pfb

Et voila, we already have this font duplicated in the archive. The
question is what to do with these duplicates? Remove them from
texlive-fonts-recommended, make that package depend on xfonts-scalable
and add symlinks?

Please note that there are also other duplicate fonts between the
gsfonts package, the ones shipped in the ghostscript tarball and the
ones in /usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/fonts/type1/urw.

Back to topic: We should either take Adobe Utopia from CTAN and add it
to xfonts-scalable or add a fontconfig file to texlive-fonts-recommended
that registers this font with fontconfig (that's be five lines of code).
In both cases we'd have duplicates between xfonts-scalable and
texlive-fonts-recommended, so what to do with them?

 - Fabian

(dropping individuals from CC list)

Quoting Fabian Greffrath (fabian@greffrath.com):


From your summary, I think the ideal move is having X.org upstream
drop this font from their distribution ("picking" it from CTAN has no
logic: if it lives on CTAN, it should be provided by TeX-related
software, not by X.org).

And, of course, also add the fontconfig file to
texlive-fonts-recommended as you suggest.

Am Samstag, den 06.10.2012, 08:07 +0200 schrieb Christian PERRIER:

It might not be as easy as it seems. I have once witnessed an argument
on some mailing list between TeX and Ghostscript people about who is the
right "authority" to host the 35 Postscript core fonts. ;)

In my opinion, texlive-fonts-recommended should export the psnfss fonts
to fontconfig, i.e. the 35 Postscript core fonts plus Bitstream Charter
and Adobe Utopia. The will end up redundant with gsfonts for the core
fonts and xfonts-scalable for the Charter, but these fonts are installed
as duplicates anyway and then it's up to fontconfig to choose between
the alternatives. I'll post a patch against texlive-fonts-recommended
soon.

 - Fabian

Am Samstag, den 06.10.2012, 22:04 +0200 schrieb Fabian Greffrath:

Yes, there are problems with that, and AFAIR they have never been resolved.
So I guess the best is to either convince gs people to use proper
handling of font names, or to keep the fonts separate.

Best wishes

Norbert
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Norbert Preining            preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan                                 TeX Live & Debian Developer
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Am 08.10.2012 02:47, schrieb Norbert Preining:

According to [1], ghostscript is currently shipping the pristine set
of fonts that they received directly from URW++ in early 2011. They
are, however, different (in md5sums) to the ones provided on CTAN.

  - Fabian

[1] http://ghostscript.com/pipermail/gs-devel/2012-October/009305.html

I tried to raise some interest in this topic upstream, but honestly, I
doubt there is enough incentive to adapt to the new licensing:

http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2013-August/037266.html

For the Debian package, couldn't we just distribute that font under the
license granted to the TeX User Group? Comparing the tarballs
distributed by X.org and by CTAN, the font files (.pfb/.afm) are exactly
the same. It is just the LICENSE/COPYING text that's different!
Currently, the only way to get this font installed on a Debian system is
via texlive-fonts-recommended, which is at least inconvenient if you are
not going to use tex at all.

- Fabian