- Package:
- www.debian.org
- Source:
- www.debian.org
- Submitter:
- Steve McIntyre
- Date:
- 2021-09-22 04:27:56 UTC
- Severity:
- important
As pointed out in https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/201603301121.25333.lisi.reisz@gmail.com , we may be giving links to download ISO images but we're not giving *any* useful information about the checksums and signatures for those images in pages like https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/ As we're trying to educate users to verify their downloads more, we really need to do better here. For many (most?) people that page is already a wall of text, so just adding more stuff there won't help. think we actually have *too many* pages describing how to download ISOs etc., and it's becoming a pain to keep up with them all and keep them all updated in sync. It's very easy for people to find outdated/misleading/confusing pages that put them off. So, I'd like to suggest a new, much simplified strategy: * *Remove* the direct link on the front page to the multi-arch netinst I'd argue that we *don't* need a direct link on the front page, and it's a dis-service to users who may download it and then not know what to do to verify etc. * Replace that link with a link to a simple "Download" page which gives *simple* instructions and links. This would be similar to what we have at https://www.debian.org/distrib/ , but we also need to re-org that page and make it prettier and clearer, add some graphics etc.: Download Debian =============== Debian is [ ... ] GRAPHIC 1 GRAPHIC 2 (picture of installer) (picture of desktop) * Download installer * Download live image ================== =================== + (link to m-a netinst?) + link to favoured 64-bit image + link to 64-bit netinst + link to favoured 32-bit image + link to 32-bit netinst + more... (link to page with + more... (link to page with more architecture options, more architecture options, download options, etc.) download options, etc.) (CENTERED, in a box?) GRAPHIC 3 (picture of checksums / padlock etc.) * Verify your download ==================== (simple rationale and instructions, link to page with more details) GRAPHIC 4 GRAPHIC 5 (picture of USB stick) (picture of CD/DVD media) * How to write to USB * How to write to optical media =================== ============================= (simple instructions, (simple instructions, link to pages with more link to pages with more details) details) * Re-organise all the other pages to act as the subsidiary pages mentioned here, removing the redundancy that's biting us and hurting users. Thoughts?
El 31/03/16 a las 19:09, Steve McIntyre escribió: I like this proposal very much, and I'll put time to make it happen, if others like it too. Best regards
Hi, some texts which should be considered: https://www.debian.org/CD/verify https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#verify https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-unix https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-windows https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-mac The overhaul should already prepare for the announced demise of MD5 and SHA1. Have a nice day :) Thomas
An overhaul of the getting Debian pages is indeed long overdue. Adrian Gibanel had some great ideas about presentation of derivatives stuff on the website, perhaps he has some about reorganising the 'getting Debian' section of the website. Adrian, the initial proposal and discussion is available here: https://bugs.debian.org/819664 I would drop mention of architectures and go with either the multi-arch only ones 64-bit ones or an auto-detection system based on User-Agent, JavaScript etc. I would encourage a review of how the getting/download pages for other operating systems (Windows/Mac/Android variants) and Free Software distributions work. Some ideas around verification and safety of getting Debian: https://wiki.debian.org/Hardening/RepoAndImages A couple of other sketches of how getting Debian pages could work: http://get.debian.net/ http://debian-cd.debian.net/ There are some things that are missing from the getting Debian pages: win32-loader https://www.debian.org/blends/ https://wiki.debian.org/Cloud https://wiki.debian.org/DebianHosting Probably the FAQ could be eliminated by addressing most of the entries in the text?
Hi, is it considered a bug that http://get.debian.net/ only works with Javascript enabled ? (If not a security risk, it is at least an annoyance to browse the general web with Javascript. All that blinking, popping, and driving up of CPU speed ...) Have a nice day :) Thomas
I'd rather keep it simple. We can't necessarily assume that the machine somebody uses to visit the site is the machine they're downloading an image for. Yes, I think so, but in subsidiary pages. I'd like to keep the *first* download page as simple as possible, with the "more..." links for any more details that people might want. For the same reason, I'd like to concentrate on the most common arch/image types on the main page and move other options to secondary pages.
El 01/04/16 a las 06:33, Paul Wise escribió: A) So, here there is my advice on how to reorganise 'getting Debian' ( https://www.debian.org/distrib/index.en.html ). Every advice I give on redesigning Debian webpage is based on dividing the page on a per-user or per-role basis. I will try to apply that policy into 'getting Debian' and trying to add the requested additional information about how to check your iso. I know that dividing the page on a per-user or per-role basis is not useful or convenient for every page but hopefully me trying to think outside the box will give you some ideas. B) Some thoughts after reading what I have written as 'Getting Debian' page content. * The VERB + your + SOMETHING is a pun on the Starship Troopers film army/war ads. But, anyways, I feel something similar is needed to link each of the steps and make the reader think he is reading a well thought guide and not just unconnected steps put together. * I have left many other roles (datacenter sysadmin, cloud sysadmin) because I think that with three examples you get the idea. * You can see how the newbies (Newcomer - Installing it, Computer Sysadmin - Newbie) get an installation disk with an specific flavour (maybe you just need to give them netinst too? I don't know.) The "Computer Sysadmin - Advanced" gets a netinst image as you might expect. This is probably the thing that needs the most to be fixed with the current scenario where someone who visits: debian.org gets a link to a netinst image while not being clear if they need that media at all or not. * You can see that each one of the options do not end on the usual "How to burn into CD" or even "How to boot" but try to get people involved somehow into Debian. * Not sure if it would be better to advice to check the Blends in the first place for the "Computer System - Newbie" just in case one of them fits his needs. * Cloud sysadmin would probably get directed to Cloud based (Amazon, Azure, ...) base downloads. * Datacenter sysadmin would probably get many downloads offered. * About the reusing data (which it's what Steve McIntyre was complaining) I guess I would use "include pages" for each one of the steps which are duplicated in each of the roles so that we don't have to maintain (n roles) times (m steps). * I have invented some pages/terms which probably don't exist in actual Debian (website), or maybe they exist but I don't know which are their proper names. C) Possible 'Getting Debian' page content: Debian is for everyone. We will try to guide you to get the best media of Debian for you. Please choose your profile / role. Newcomer - First Contact / Newcomer - Installing it / Computer Sysadmin - Newbie / Computer Sysadmin - Advanced Newcomer - First contact ========================= NEF.0. Know your Debian Live. A Debian Live image lets you try Debian in RAM without ... . That way you can check if it fits your needs. NEF.1. Download your ISO. A 32-bit image is probably only need with computers prior to 2005? . Whenever possible please try the 64-bit image. + link to Debian Live favoured 64-bit image + link to Debian Live favoured 32-bit image NEF.2. Check your ISO. This step ensures the ISO you have downloaded is ok. In order to verify your download you have to... NEF.3. Burn your ISO. That big file needs to be put into a DVD or an USB. Here we show you how. NEF.4. Boot your ISO. In order to boot a Debian Live you don't usually need to do anything in most recent PCs. However if your previous OSes boot you probably need to press F8,... NEF. 5. Enjoy your ISO. We recommend you to discover the most used and famous Debian programs on the Debian Live thanks to our "Discover famous Debian programs" page. NEF. 6. Become a Debianer! Do you enjoy Debian Live but you would like to use it in daily basis without using a Debian Live CD or Debian Live USB. Install it on your computer. Please check: "Newcomer - Installing it". Newcomer - Installing it ========================= NEI.0. Know your Debian Live. You don't know what's Debian yet? You might want to test it first thanks to a Debian Live image which works without touching your hard disk. Please check: "Newcomer - First contact". NEI.1. Download your ISO. A 32-bit image is probably only need with computers prior to 2005? . Whenever possible please try the 64-bit image. + link to Debian Install favoured 64-bit image + link to Debian Install favoured 32-bit image NEI.2. Check your ISO. This step ensures the ISO you have downloaded is ok. In order to verify your download you have to... NEF.3. Burn your ISO. That big file needs to be put into a DVD or an USB. Here we show you how. NEI.4. Boot your ISO. In order to boot a Debian Installation Disk you don't usually need to do anything in most recent PCs. However if your previous OSes boot you probably need to press F8,... NEI. 5. Install your ISO. Installing Debian as a single Operating System for your computer is rather simple. If you need additional help on this help you can check our tour "Installing Debian". NEI. 6. Enjoy your Debian We recommend you to discover the most used and famous Debian programs on the Debian Live thanks to our "Discover famous Debian programs" page. NEI. 7. Become a Debianer! Do you enjoy Debian? There's a community out there which needs your help. Check how you can help by checking our: "Debian - Our community" page. Computer Sysadmin - Newbie =========================== CSN.0. Know your Debian You don't know what's Debian yet? We recommend you to test it in a virtual machine prior to install to a phisical machine. Please check: "Debian support on virtualisation systems". CSN.1. Download your ISO. A 32-bit image is probably only need with computers prior to 2005? . Whenever possible please try the 64-bit image. + link to Debian Install favoured 64-bit image + link to Debian Install favoured 32-bit image CSN.2. Check your ISO. This step ensures the ISO you have downloaded is ok. In order to verify your download you have to... CSN.3. Burn your ISO. That big file needs to be put into a DVD or an USB. Here we show you how. CSN.4. Boot your ISO. In order to boot a Debian Installation Disk you don't usually need to do anything in most recent PCs. However if your previous OSes boot you probably need to press F8,... CSN. 5. Install your ISO. Installing Debian as a single Operating System for your computer is rather simple. If you need additional help on this help you can check our tour "Installing Debian". CSN. 6. Enjoy your Debian As per your technical role we recommend you to discover the different blends of Debian which can be applied to normal Debian installation thanks to its metapackages. CSN. 7. Become a Debianer! Do you enjoy Debian? There's a community out there which needs your help. Check how you can help by checking our: "Debian - Our community" page. Computer Sysadmin - Advanced ============================ CSA.0. Know your Debian You don't know what's Debian yet? We recommend you to test it in a virtual machine prior to install to a phisical machine. Please check: "Debian support on virtualisation systems". CSA.1. Download your ISO. A 32-bit image is probably only need with computers prior to 2005? . Whenever possible please try the 64-bit image. + link to netinst 64-bit image + link to netinst 32-bit image CSA.2. Check your ISO. This step ensures the ISO you have downloaded is ok. In order to verify your download you have to... CSA.3. Burn your ISO. That big file needs to be put into a DVD or an USB. Here we show you how. CSA.4. Boot your ISO. In order to boot a Debian Installation Disk you don't usually need to do anything in most recent PCs. However if your previous OSes boot you probably need to press F8,... CSA. 5. Install your ISO. Installing Debian as a single Operating System for your computer is rather simple. If you need additional help on this help you can check our tour "Installing Debian". CSA. 6. Enjoy your Debian As per your technical role we recommend you to discover the different blends of Debian which can be applied to normal Debian installation thanks to its metapackages. CSA. 7. Become a Debianer! Do you enjoy Debian? There's a community out there which needs your help. Check how you can help by checking our: "Debian - Our community" page adrian15
Hey Laura, ... ... It's been a while, and I'd like to move on with this. Do you have the time to help, please?
Hi El 17/07/16 a las 18:03, Steve McIntyre escribió: I have created a CVS branch called new_download in the english folder of the CVS repo to work on this. In that branch, I have created a "download" folder under the "english" folder with a Makefile and index.wml I'm attaching the index.wml in its current state to this email for people to be able to review it without checking out the whole branch. It still needs work in the last 3 steps (verify, write to usb, write to cd). For what I have read, you can checkout, update and work in the branch just adding "-r new_download" to your cvs commands. I'll go on working on this, and try to reuse the wording of the current pages, inserting comments to translators, so when the page is complete, translations are easy to do. When more or less the text is ready, I'll try to get -l10n-english and -designers in the loop for improving the page, and I'll go on working on the subsequent pages (same strategy: get the text trying to reuse from the current pages, etc). Finally, if we agree to put in production this, we should need to * change the homepage so the "Download Debian" button points to this, * probably remove paragraphs or whole pages under /CD or /distrib, or rewrite them * get the corresponding redirects in Apache where needed (if we remove some pages, redirect to the new ones, etc). Please let me know your ideas or if I'm understanding or doing something wrong (or it can be improved in some way). Cheers
Hi I have added the pending sections to the index.wml file, and committed to the branch. I'm attaching the file in its current state, too. It still needs work, in particular, add some paragraph at the end linking to the old folders/files, for example for people looking for non stable releases, or other achitectures. The page english/CD/verify.wml also needs some review and completion; link to tools to verify images in different operating systems, and maybe offer the SHA512SUM files and its signature along with the downloads, because people won't know in which subfolder they are. Cheers
In order to simplify the choice for the user, I suggest to provide a link to dual architecture 32 & 64bits if it's possible instead of one link for 32bits and another one for 64bits. There is a .diff attached to this message based on the Laura's index.wml to do it on installation CDs.
Hello, I am slightly wondering about this new filename ending .sign. IMHO the usual pattern for such files was .gpg before (for example: Release.gpg). This .sign looks weird, it does not tell you which format the data inside might have. Please reconsider the filenames. Regards, Eduard.
Hello, Le 25/09/2016 à 17:57, Eduard Bloch a écrit : Can you provide an example where the extension has changed? There are signatures ending with .sign for each cd, dvd, etc. images but the suffix seems to be always .sign since release 3.1: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/3.1_r0/i386/iso-cd/ it's like today: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.6.0/amd64/iso-cd/ The scheme is {MD5, SHAx}SUMS : the checksum according to each algorithm {MD5, SHAx}SUMS.sign : the checksum signed by a Debian CD signing key Do you talk about other signatures?
Exactly - we've been using the .sign filenames for many years for CD releases.
Hallo, * Steve McIntyre [Mon, Sep 26 2016, 03:14:21PM]: Uhm, ok, sorry, please forgive my failure to research. Best regards, Eduard.
Hi I'm resending this suggestion to the bug that is currently open to work on the CD section of the website (#819664) so it doesn't get lost. Thanks Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Resending now, actually. Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Does someone disagrees about this change? If no one objects, I plan to commit the change this week-end. I have no idea about this point.
Le 03/05/2017 à 17:20, Stéphane Blondon a écrit : I committed this sentence: 'Many mirrors supply direct HTTP download links you can download with your browser or command line tool.' because the detailed page (https://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/) advices the use of tool that supports resuming. The update will be visible in few hours. I didn't close the bug because I don't know what the automatic selection status is. Stéphane
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